Why a Saturday Night Service... and other things changing this fall...

EDITOR'S NOTE: I just got yelled at by our Saturday evening campus pastor, Charlie Dunn, who said that there are a lot more missional reasons why we're doing the Saturday evening campus than some of the ones I noted below. True. At the core, we are adding a Saturday evening service because this is the best step for the fall to reach people. In addition, we are opening the SUMMIT EN ESPANOL campus on Saturday night as well... which will be a service entirely in Spanish with a live, Spanish speaking pastor that will be preaching the message translated into Spanish and contextualized for a Hispanic audience.

So, the word is out... starting August 15-16 we are moving to a new service structure at the Brier Creek campus. Saturday night at 6:00pm; then 3 on Sunday morning: 9:00, 10:45 and 12:30, with a video venue going on in the Bay during the 10:45 service.

Some of you have asked why we are discontinuing the Sunday night service when it was working so well... you're also apprehensive about going to church on Saturday night since currently that serves the slot of connecting socially with friends... furthermore, many of you have gotten used to sleeping in on Sunday, and then coming to a great time of worship later in the day. So why move it? Here are the reasons, not necessarily in order:

1. Having a service on Saturday night saves us a ton of money. We were getting to the place where we were going to have to put in a very expensive satellite uplink in place in order to get the message to our other campuses... currently we send the message by internet to the Cole Mill Road campus (whose 1st service starts at 9:15) and run a DVD over to the West Club Campus, whose 1st service started at 11:15. However, West Club will be adding an earlier service (which means we can't get the DVD in time to them) and the internet feed just kept failing at CMR. The solution was satellite... or to do a Saturday night service here at BCAM where we can record a high quality, reliable version of the sermon and have it in place at our campuses on Sunday morning.
2. Having a Saturday night service will allow us to extend our evening reach to include families and slacker students. Saturday night allows families to come to the evening service... when the service was on Sunday night, many families were trying to get their kids wound down from the weekend and into bed to start school the next day. I also knew college students who on Sunday night had to start cramming in the work they procrastinated on all weekend :) Families and slacker students of all ages can come to church and feel relaxed.
3. We actually haven't discontinued our Sunday night service, we've just moved it to 12:30 on Sunday. One of the "attractions" of the Sunday p.m. service was those people who enjoyed sleeping in on Sunday (or had to work) and then go to church later in the day. Well, you can still sleep in, get up about lunch, and get to church.
4. You're not really "giving up" your Saturday night. Think about it...the service starts at 6 and finishes at 7:30... no college student or young professional I know ever begins their weekend before 7:30 anyway. Now, to be honest... I have a small emotional reaction to this one because I want to say "Build your weekend around God's priorities," but I know that many of you will say, "Well I'll just come on Sunday morning..." And it would really help us for many of you to move to Saturday night. So, I need  you to realize that you can go to church and still go out with your friends that night. In fact, this would be a great way to start your evening... invite some of the friends you are trying to reach to go to church with you, and then go out afterwards!
   
5. You can pretty much guarantee I'll be speaking live on Saturday night. It will be the first service of the weekend. As the Brier Creek 9:00 am service will tell you (currently the 1st service), you can also look forward to awkward jokes that I make only in whatever is the 1st service (i.e. flopped jokes I subsequently realize don't work and then cut out for the remaining services). The first sermon is always kind of "the lab" sermon.
   
6. Pastor Charlie and the pm worship team will be leading our Saturday night service. Charlie has some new uber-fashionable clothes straight from the runways of France he'll be modeling (think purple and fuschia), and the p.m. worship team has some disgustingly good musicians. In all seriousness, Pastor Charlie, Jonathan, and their team of leaders is an incredibly dedicated and motivated team. You would find it a great place to serve and a great team to serve with. They get it done, there's no doubt!

As it stands now, Awana and other current Sunday night stuff will STILL continue happening on SUNDAY night.

More information to come... you can keep up to date here, at our new site (if you haven't seen it yet, check out our new site... all the bugs aren't worked out, but we're pretty pleased with the new look and navigation.) Also, you can get your daily Proverbs devotional there... to do as we go through this Still Standing series.

REMEMBER: This doesn't start till mid-August (Aug 15-16, to be exact)... so don't start showing up now on Saturday night.

Summit, this is your time to do, again, what you've always done... time for some of you to choose the hard path, sacrifice your convenience and preference, and do what is best for reaching people. For many of you, that will be moving out of our Sunday morning Brier Creek campus to our Saturday night one (or one of our others on Sunday morning!)

Do pray for us...we are greatly depending on God to meet our needs for these services, as we continue to allow God to expand the borders of our tent. We need leaders of all kinds to step up. In case you didn't count it... that will mean, counting the video venue in the Bay at the Brier Creek morning campus and the En Espanol Campus, we will have 10 services on the weekend... in addition to that, our Church Planting Center is in full swing preparing those who are feeling a call to be sent out to plant churches in RDU, the US, and around the world...

Comments

[Jeff Fisher]

Yes! Our family has been hoping for this. Sign us up for Saturday night. We're in.

[Raudel]

My Sunday school teacher always told me that 6 was an evil number, and that 7 was a Godly number, so I'll add a number 7 to this :) ha, ha...

7. Because we are partnering with our Spanish speaking services, we are opening up a venue Saturdays evenings @ 6:00 p.m. as well to reach our Spanish speaking community, an all Spanish Summit service! "Summit en Español" isn't that exciting!!! :)

[John Wallace]

This is perfect for people who will be doing community-based ministries (e.g., church plating) on Sunday! Way to go, Summit!

[Pat Sawyer]

JD, does our adding a Saturday night service imply that it is OK for members of the Summit to attend the Saturday night service exclusively for their corporate worship needs? And if so, how does that reconcile with Article VIII "The Lord's Day" in the Baptist Faith and Message, 2000 ed (the official doctrinal statement of the Summit)? Thanks for any input.

[Sam]

JD will this mean there will not always be a live sermon from you at the 9am bcam??

[Tom Minton]

Coupled with the new website, does this mean we might also see sermon videos on the website?

Would be a great way to share the messages with others!

[J.D. Greear]

Sam... no, no change now to BCAM. The plan is still for me to be live at BC morning services.

Pat, we interpret Article 8 through Paul's words in Romans 14:5, "One person esteems one day as better than another, while another esteems all days alike. EAch one should be fully convinced in his own mind." Thus, the calendar day of Sunday is not necessarily sacrosanct... and worship day should be set by context. Many of our church planters in Muslim countries choose to do their "weekly worship" on Fridays, since it is already seen as a rest and worship day in those societies.

Baptist thought right now allows a great deal of flexibility on that point. We would see that "the weekend" as a whole is a good time for rest and worship in American culture.

Plus, based on the Jewish calendar which the early Apostles would have used, "Sunday" would have started at sundown on Saturday night! :)

[Chris Aiken]

JD,
As a pastor in another place...looking in at Summit and your leadership...I appreciate and learn a lot from your communication and interaction. Thanks for leading! Praise God for the growth and influence of Summit Church!

[Pat Sawyer]

Thanks JD for the response. I wanted to at least get an initial answer as to what could be seen by some as an apparent tension with our statement of faith. For me there is some tension. Though it is not derailing or majorly problematic for me. Perhaps in the future we could speak about it offline where we could have some extended discussion. Just to briefly address a couple of things you said. First, the issue is not with Sunday per se but with the "first day of the week", which happens to be Sunday in our culture. Article 8 in the BF&M references the "first day of the week" as "the Christian institution for regular observance" which "should include exercises of worship and spiritual devotion, both public and private". I say this respectfully but if the framers of the BF&M had thought there was no distinction in the days of the week pertaining to the Church's corporate worship they would have said so. But instead they say the opposite. They, in point of fact, distinguish "the first day of the week". In other words the very existince of Article 8 "The Lord's Day", and what it says by definition, disallows any understanding of it that says any day is the same regarding corporate worship. This includes any attempt to (mis)apply Romans 14:5. Secondly, Romans 14:5 is commonly brought up in discussions about the Christian Sabbath, Corporate Worship, or the Lord's Day but is often applied incorrectly. Romans 14 is about principles of conscience and how one is to navigate in their Christain liberty. Distinction of days are mentioned in the same breath as distinction of foods (v6). Certain days (passover festivals, new moon festivals, etc) no longer needed to be given special regard by the early church, just as certain foods didn't need to be. However, it seems to me, and many others in Historic Christianity, that the Lord's Day/Sabbath and its relationship to Corporate Worship for the New Covenant believer is an altogether different thing. Jesus is still Lord of the Sabbath (Matt 12:8), and his altering of His day from the last day of the week to the first day of the week was/is no minor event that has somehow lost relevancy. To talk about this thoroughly, at minimum, we will have go from Exodus (the 10 commandments with specific regard to the 4th and God the Father's rest) to the Gospels (Jesus affirmation of the Moral Law and His Lordship of the Sabbath) to Acts (the patterns of the early church) to Hebrews (what it means to enter into Jesus' rest -when, how, and why - for Him and His followers) and to Revelation (the apostle John's distinction). That will take way to long here. Perhaps some time in the future we can grab lunch and discuss further. I would appreciate your full view on the subject. Emails and blog comments are tricky. As you hopefully know, my spirit in my disagreement with you is one of humility and strong appreciation of you and your leadership. My family and I are blessed to be part of the Summit and regard it a priviledge to be involved. Our prayers are with you and all the leadership.

[Saturday Night Special]

This Sat. night service thing gives rise to so many important questions for students like myself.

Questions like "will there be free beer?" I mean, there's free coffee at the morning service. But coffee keeps me wired and up too late if I drink it in the evening.

And "is there a by-law against open containers on the campus?" If not, I'm happy to bring my own and even share.

Vintage 21 does a bar bible study downtown. "Theology on tap" or something like that, they call it. Pretty cool idea, a la Martin Luther, John Calvin, etc. Maybe can be worked into the new community outreach model.

[Pat Sawyer]

JD, let me also clarify that I have no problem with a Saturday Night service per se. I think it can be a great idea, particulary regarding outreach. I also look frwd to attending from time to time in addition to Sunday. The possibility that it might replace Lord's Day worship for some (if not handled a certain way) is what is of some concern to me.

[Saturday Night Special]

Very interesting questions regarding the Baptist Faith & Message, Article VIII. The Article seems to go further then the very verses it lists as its support. I know... surprise, surprise.

None of those verses mentions the Lord's Day as being any better for assembling then any other day. The verses mention occurrences when disciples gathered on the first day of the week. But then again, the Scriptures mention occurrences of disciples wearing sandals also. No obligation is created or commanded in the Scriptures.

[stacey]

I'm very excited about this opening doors to a wider audience. In addition to Spanish-speakers, another example is people who work 12-hour shifts such as nurses will be able to attend church if they work on Sundays.

I'm finding that most of the reasons I think of to not make a change are simply to make life more convenient for us. Thank you Summit for thinking about the whole picture!

[J.D. Greear]

Thanks for the thoughts, Pat.

I just wouldn't see that we are bound by the law to a specific calendar day. Here's why:

The case that we must worship on Sunday rests on the assumption that the OT law translates into the New Testament requiring a certain day to be honored by all Christians everywhere. If that is the case, then the NT never says that directly. You have to infer it by example. It's not a really solid hermeneutic to take one practice of the early church and say it is mandatory for all Christians everywhere. We certainly can learn from them... but another hermeneutic we must balance is the freedom from the law we are given in Christ. That means that the incidentals of the day are not as important as the spirit of worship and rest that is commanded. That is why Romans 14 is not a misapplication in my opinion. While Paul's context is different (i.e. he's not referencing Saturday night services), he is giving a principle which applies equally here. In Christ, the lunar calendar is not important as it was in the OT law. God of course, has not changed, so we must worship and rest, but days and foods and dress are no longer binding...Furthermore, there is no indication that the "rest" portion of the Sabbath was instituted by Christians on the first day, and their first day worship was never referred to as their "Sabbath."

This again, is a relative non-issue in other places in the world... as in Muslim societies. Do Muslims who become Christians have to take off every Sunday? Most of their jobs are Sunday-Thursday jobs, and Friday is their "Sabbath." Do they have to refuse to work on Sunday so they can go to church and honor the Sabbath/Sunday...which, by the way, isn't really a Sabbath because it's not on Saturday and seeing that there's no indication that Christians were commanded not to work on the first day of the week?

I would submit that what we learn from the early church is in moving the worship day from the Sabbath to Sunday the calendar day is no longer a ruling factor for Christians. They weren't giving a new law; they were exercising their freedom. The point is not to take us from one law code into a new law code, the point is to make us free in Christ. If we discover that in the OT they had to sing Jewish music in Hebrew, and then we discover that NT churches sang Greek music in the Greek language, the point is not that we must all now sing Greek music, the point is that we are free to sing whatever music best reflects the culture we are in.

Again, good thoughts, thanks for the discussion. I don't have a corner on the truth of this issue, and I know a lot of really godly people disagree with me. But this is how we see it...

[Pat Sawyer]

Thanks JD for the response. I appreciate what you have said here and agree in part, though I think on some level you are mixing apples and oranges. It seems you see the DAY of New Covenant worship as almost exclusively a contextualization issue. Whereas I see the DAY of New Covenant worship as having direct, spiritual ties to the Decalogue. These spiritual ties to the Decalogue are made by Christ Himself throughout the Gospels and take into account that He, as God and Head of the Church, can (and does) alter, and in some cases expand (ex. not only, do not commit adultery, but do not lust in the heart) the 10 commandments and their moral import for His followers. New Covenant Believers do NOT look like Old Covenant theocratic Isreal on the Article 8 Lord's Day issue because Christ as Lord of the Sabbath (Matt 12) has altered the DAY (last to first) and given more freedom in the "how" the Christian Sabbath/Lord's Day is practiced. This is also why I believe Article 8 on The Lord's Day in the BF&M gets it right...goes far enough but not farther than the Bible's teaching.

I don't think the practice of the early church should be an exclusive hermeneutical principle to guide us. That's why I referenced several other elements from Exodus to Revelation that we would need to discuss in depth to be thorough. But the practice of the early Church is PART of the discussion, particularly since the the early Church's decision to worship on the first day of the week was so COUNTER-Cultural. It was a major deal for the early Jewish Christians to transition from the last day of the week to the first. This was against their cultural norm. Moreover as the Church spread throughout the Book of Acts, regardless of the city or culture in which it was planted, corporate worship was instituted on the first day of the week, regardless of any cultural norm. The hermeneutic you reference of "the freedom from the law we are given in Christ" has to be rightly defined. Not sure how it applies here. To save time you and I both essentially hold to a Reformed, Historical, Orthodox view of this concept. While this concept holds manifold blessings for the Believer, it does NOT mean we are free to disobey God's moral law without consequence (ergo without His Fatherly discipline). Hebrews 10:25 commands us to be in corporate worship. And since I see the DAY of primary corpoarte worship relating at least back to the Decalogue (if not Creation itself as a Creation ordinance-which I admit there is more debate there), I don't think the "freedom from the law" hermeneutic applies. Even taking a contextualization approach to the DAY of worship, I still don't see how that particular hermeneutic applies directly.

Anyway...perhaps one day in the future we could discuss at length. You are right. Godly people do disagree on this issue. People a whole lot more godly than me I might add. Thanks for laboring with me here. Again, I appreciate your leadership and look forward to worshipping on Sat nite from tme to time.

[Jack Sawyer]

I believe Piper's theology of the Lord's Day is helpful, especially how he applies it to the place a Saturday evening service may have in the life of a local church:

http://www.desiringgod.org/ResourceLibrary/TasteAndSee/ByDate/2005/1309_If_the_Lords_Day_Is_Sunday_Why_Do_We_Have_a_Saturday_Evening_Service/

[Pat Sawyer]

Jack, thanks for the post and link to Piper. I appreciate his perspective.

[Jack Sawyer]

In the interest of full disclosure, I am Pat's younger, better looking brother. : )

[Andy]

Another possible solution that doesn't ever seem to be mentioned to deal with problems like having to buy "an expensive satellite uplink" (see point 1) is to have the pastors at the various campuses preach to the campuses under their care.

Advantages:
- savings - those "campus pastors" are already on staff; and not only would "expensive satellite uplink" (sounds like we're becoming the CIA) be off the table, but we wouldn't need to maintain expensive camera equipment and burn all those DVDs, etc.
- humility - having multiple pastors preaching would tend to not create an environment centered around a single (though exceptionally talented) pastor. The non-preaching pastors on staff went to Seminary and are fantastic speakers (I've been here 8 years, and I've heard all of them)
- convenience - we don't have to worry about tech problems if we take the tech part out of it
- sincerity - It feels a little more "real" when you're not watching TV at church. It may confusing to the kids to tell them that they shouldn't watch too much TV at home, but that's how we do church
- It's Biblical - I realize Paul didn't have the capacity for satellite uplinks. Big crowds are great (Peter did it, so did Paul, and so have many of the great preachers) but it was live and in-color. If Paul wanted to tell someone something, he went there. "How Beautiful are the Feet..." not, "how fantastic is the uplink...".

[Matt]

I have been a follower of Christ for 20 years but have never read the Baptist Faith & Message or know the meaning of the word "hermaneutics." While I respect that some people are more studied in the roots of our denomination, I follow one "rule" when it comes to decisions of my church that I may or may not like:

"What does the Bible say to me about the topic?" If I see nothing in scritpure that contradicts, then I see it as a personal preference/interpretation. I'm really excited about reaching our English and Spanish-speaking community on Saturday night and I will be there!