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Staying one place for a long time in ministry

I am grateful for friends who have modeled staying in one place for the duration of their lives in ministry. While I realize we can never tell God where we're going to stay or go, I think the mentality of planting your life permanently some place is a good thing for most of us pastors and our churches. I've heard that pastors consistently OVERESTIMATE what they can accomplish at a church in 5 years, and consistently UNDERESTIMATE what they can accomplish in 20 years. Both of the men I'm going to mention have been in ministry at Providence long enough that they have established deep patterns of ministry that are really effective. I've been at the Summit for about 6 years, which means I'm over the hard part now and that I've got 14 more sweet years ahead of me!

The two friends that I'm talking about are David Horner and Steve Wright, senior pastor and student pastor of Providence Baptist here in Raleigh. Both have also recently released a "magnum opus" of sorts I wanted to commend to you. Baker books just released David Horner's A Practical Guide to Life and Ministry, which is a theological reflection on what it means to be a pastor. Steve Wright came out with ReThink, which is a new approach to student ministry. Steve's book was recently used by the staffs of both C. J. Mahaney and John Piper's churches.

Good stuff.

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Audio Interview with Voddie Baucham

Recently a good friend of mine, Pastor, Theologian, Author and Family-man Voddie Baucham (Bio) guest-preached in our Sunday morning services (Sermons here and here).

He was gracious enough to sit down with one of our pastors for the purpose of recording a 10 minute interview on some issues facing our church and the Christian church as a whole.

Take a few minutes to listen to the interview (Here).

Yoda

At the Summit you've heard me say that Tim Keller is a lot like Yoda to me (to borrow from Mark Driscoll)... well, this week I got to go to "the Dagobah system" (thanks, Zeke, for the correction--you are a nerd for knowing that!) and spend a little time with him. It was the first time I'd met him in person and I told him my primary goal was to be able to say from now on, "My friend Tim Keller says..." He said that was fine.

Charlie Dunn embarrassed the heck out of both of us when he asked Tim to sign his A Reason for God and claimed it was for his wife, Abby. That was not nearly as embarrassing, however, as when I asked to take this picture:

I always thought Yoda was shorter.

Also, I got to spend a little time again with Mark Driscoll, and I was really pleased that he brought up how much he thinks of Danny Akin and Southeastern Seminary. I know Dr. Akin as taken some heat about his "acceptance" of Driscoll, but I am grateful that this relationship exists. I think it is a healthy development. I know that we all don't agree on everything, but the centrality of the Gospel is something we do agree on.

At any rate, it was great to connect with these guys and the talks Tim gave the next couple of days at the Acts 29 Urban Conference were phenomenal. Here are a couple of tidbits from them:

• Paul had a gospel for the "circumcised" and the "uncircumcised." It was the same Gospel in essence, but how he expressed it was very different. In the same way, we have to preach the Gospel in a way that makes sense to the traditional religious person (the circumcised) and, at other times, in a way that makes sense to the secular person (the uncircumcised.) The circumcised understand the concepts of "the laws of God," and "sin", whereas the "uncircumcised"  may not grasp these concepts as well, and may better understand sin as idolatry (i.e. finding in other things what we should be finding in God). For the "uncircumcised," we may be more effective beginning our presentation of the Gospel showing how Jesus is God become man to bring restoration and justice to a fallen world, and then moving to His confrontation of our individual sin.
• "A church that truly dwells in the Biblical gospel will look quite unusual. Because of the 'inside-out' kingdom/substitutionary atonement aspect, the church will put great emphasis on personal conversion, experiental grace renewal, evangelism, outreach, and church planting.  This makes it look like an evangelical-charismatic church.  Because of the 'upside-down' kingdom/incarnation aspect, the church will put great emphasis on deep community, cell groups or house churches, and will emphasize radical giving and sharing of resources, spiritual disciplines, racial reconciliation, and living with the poor.  This makes it look like an Anabaptist 'peace' church.  Because of the 'forward-back' kingdom/restoration aspect, the church will put great emphasis on seeking the welfare of the city, neighborhood and civic involvement, cultural engagement, and training people to work in 'secular' vocations out of a Christian world-view.  This makes it look like mainline church or perhaps a Kuyperian Reformed church. Very few church movements are able to integrate and inter-relate these ministries and emphases because of a comprehensive view of the Biblical gospel."

Pastor's Round Table: Texas

Sorry to not have kept the blog up the latter part of this week. I was in a pastor's round table forum in Texas, and was slammed morning until evening. Plus, I came down with something pretty bad the night before I was leaving, so my energy level was zilch. I know, I'm such a whiner.

Anyway, the forum was incredible and I learned a ton. I've heard a Pastor I look up to say that at some point a Pastor will get a whole lot more out of sitting around with other Pastors discussing ministry than he will going to yet another conference. That has definitely been my experience.

Here are just a handful of things:

• Never say "This is how we do it." Say, "This is how we do it today." As your church grows and changes, the methodology you use will have to change. This is why you have to be very cautious at tying every method to a Bible verse, because when you change your methodology people think you are abandoning Scripture.
• It was affirmed to me that prayer is best done in the context of small groups. Pastor Larry Osborne, who pastors a church in California that runs over 7000, said, "What church is most known for prayer in the U.S.?" The answer, of course, is Brooklyn Tabernacle. "How many people do they have at a prayer meeting?" About 2000. He said, "Each week, we have over 4000 people seriously engaged in believing prayer--not listening to someone else pray, but actually praying." This is not, of course, to take away from the Brooklyn Tabernacle (what an awesome place!)... but to say that the best context for prayer is the Summit Life Group.
• THE thing that "connects" people to church is friendships. Not discipleship programs. Ever talk to someone who says, "Well... my church was really bad but it took me over a year to leave"? Why did they stay? Almost always the answer is "Because all my friends are there." If you connect people to your church through relationships, chances are they will grow in the things your church is about. Everyone was a "growth" moment, and you can't program it. What you need to do is make sure they are connected to the church so that when they are ripe for growth, they are in the scope of the influence of your church.
• For that reason and many others, the traditional way of just "splitting" a small group really stinks (i.e. your group gets to 16 and so you just split 8 and 8). If your small group is "working," why would you want to split it? And, if people are really growing together... why take away that from them? I pitched the idea our Summit Life Group pastor, Spence Shelton, had about small groups "planting" other groups (training up a gifted couple who will go out and start their own group." Larry Osborne really liked that idea, and said that's what they were seeing work, too.
• I am grateful for our Summit Life staff, who was already doing both of the above!
  
• Average small group attendance compared to Sunday attenders is between 20 and 40%. Summit, I believe you are between 50 and 60, so good job again.
• Average giving in large churches per adult attending=$20/per person. Summit, you are at about $40!
• As a leader, you have to be present, on location, involved in the processes of the church, to make good decisions. The wisdom of Solomon + bad information = a foolish decision. And unless you see things firsthand, you are getting interpretation of things... interpretations which may not always be correct.
• The question to keep forefront in the use of technology is not technological excellence but EFFECTIVENESS. Anything else is a bad stewardship of resources.
• Many pastors of large churches cease to be "real" people... they so isolate themselves from people and life that they become hollow. Sure, in a larger church you have to guard your time, on which there is never-ending demands. But you have to remain in real, accountable, accessible relationships.
• Many pastors develop a sense of entitlement, which is a poison of the heart. The question is not "what privileges do you have?" but "which privileges have you?" i.e. which ones do you require, think you deserve, about which you get angry if they aren't given to you?

Anyway, sorry if those didn't make sense. Just a quick digest.

A Real Life Legend: Henry Blackaby

This past weekend I had a chance to spend some time with a guy who for years has been more like a legend to me than a real person, Henry Blackaby, author of the Bible study Experiencing God that was so popular years ago. I went through it in college, and it had a huge impact on me. It was part of what sent me into ministry.

He and I were both speaking at a conference on Prayer and Spiritual Awakening. Of course, that was a more than a little intimidating by itself... he had over 30 books he had authored there for sell. Someone asked me, "Where are your books?" I stammered and stuttered and finally offered to sign some of Dr. Blackaby's books.

He is an older man now, and has that sage-like quality of someone who has walked with God for years. He drips with wisdom and the anointing of God. He has devoted himself now to seeing a prayer awakening in the church. We got to spend time together talking and praying. I kept catching myself peeking at him during prayer times thinking maybe he slipped into some kind of trance wherein he pulled an Enoch and walked with God. I kept expecting to look up and see him vanish. But no, he prays just like you and me. His prayers are simple and childlike, and with great intimacy. I even saw him writing stuff down while other people were praying... made me feel better about the times I do that.

I'm always impressed when I meet some of these older giants of the faith at how "normal" they are. Normal dudes, awesome God.

He lamented that prayer is the one thing that seems to be absent from most of the "new and current" movements in Christianity (many of which he is grateful for)--which means that all of our reforms may end up crumbling much as we have seen the reforms of our ancestors crumble. The prayer of faith in the Gospel is what makes the foundations of our ministry solid, period.

I asked him what he was most concerned with in the "newer" generation of Christian leaders. He said, "Praise and worship." I said, "Praise and worship?" He said, "Yes. By and large praise and worship is a huge problem for the church. Today's praise and worship rarely calls people to repentance. It attempts to lay a foundation of spirituality on top of idolatrous and sin-tolerating hearts. There can be no move of God until God's people really repent, and our religiosity, which is most seen in our music, keeps us from real repentance. We need a John the Baptist who can cut through our religiosity and call us to really deal with our sin." (that is my summary of his words, so I may have messed it up a little bit.)

But I was floored. What incredible insight.

He then said, "The second thing is drums." I said, "Drums?" He said, "Yes. That is the world's music and it has no business in the church." OK, so obviously I didn't agree with everything that he had to say. Drums are a huge part of our worship at our church, and I don't believe there is a biblical distinction in some music that is God's and other that is Satan's. While the Old Testament is full of instructions about the specifics of worship, the New Testament is silent, because (I believe) the intent is for each culture to find the appropriate ways, musically, to express praise to God.

But even though I may not agree with everything the generation in front of me believes, I am grateful for their faithfulness to God and for the Gospel they taught me. I imagine that there are a few things I believe which time will show have more to do with my cultural trappings and not real Biblical values. I hope God and my children will be gracious to me where I fail. Sometimes I think the greatest fault of my "younger" generation of leaders is we have a self-righteous scorn for older people who we think got some things wrong. Big news flash: we will get some things wrong, too. If we can't be gracious even to our own "fathers," what kind of Gospel do we have to preach to the world?

I am grateful for Dr. Blackaby, and for taking time to invest in the next generation. We neglect their wisdom at our own peril.

Mark Driscoll and Handling Criticism

Mark said something to me that I've never quite heard put the way he put it. He referred to a number of mentors in his life who had turned on him or disappointed him. He said that he used to be devastated when it happened, feeling like a significant part of his own ministry was crashing. He said that now, however, he looks at mentors as people who put "building bricks" into his life. He's gotten many such bricks from many different people over the years. Some of those people have turned on him since, but he is still eternally grateful to them for the bricks they laid into his life. It made me realize that JESUS is the only mentor and master builder who never disappoints, and HE uses people in our lives who will sometimes fail us. But the valuable things we got from them were really from Him, so we don't have to despair when they fail us.

Some of Mark's best bricks, he said, have come from his critics. They threw their brick at him, and after recovering from the initial sting of it, he picked the brick up and incorporated it into his wall.

Pretty helpful analogy, I think.

At any rate, hope you've enjoyed these few posts about my interaction with Driscoll. I'm grateful for him as a pastor, leader and friend. I believe my own ministry is much richer now for his in my life.

Mark Driscoll and the Emerging Church, part 2

Here are the free downloads of the Convergent conference and here and here are a couple of great articles about it with clarification on Driscoll's criticism of B. McLaren, R. Bell, etc.

One of the most interesting things about Mark Driscoll was his love of theology. He considers himself in the "New Reformed" movement, which, as I mentioned in the last post, differs from the old Reformed in that a) they are nice; b) they look at lost people compassionately as individuals who need Christ and not just kindling; and c) they raise their hands in worship to songs, and not just songs on the cutting edge of the 18th century.

He is a ravenous reader, owning close to 5000 books and talks easily about any number of subjects. When it comes to the union of culture and theology, he is as knowledgable as anyone I've ever met. He doesn't yet have a completed seminary degree (showing you don't need one to know God, reach people, and grow deeply) but he is working toward one (showing that he values study  and learning).

He told me that he has become friends with a number of the most famous "megachurch" pastors... many of whom are not really known for depth. He named a number of them who have asked him to help them develop that part of their ministry... for books to read, etc. He said that most of them are turned off from "doctrinally deep" ministries because they don't seem to reach people and criticize those who are. Mark said that rather than just using these guys as targets, some of the more doctrinally-gifted pastors might offer to come alongside these megachurch guys so that they might learn from each other.

Mark is one of the few in the country who embody both theological richness and evangelistic effectiveness, like a Charles Spurgeon. May his tribe increase. It seems to me that we so desperately need in this country a group of men and women who can readily apply the Gospel to the the massive cultural shifts and societal idolatries while being effective with and accessible to everyone... who can build "great" churches in terms of size and doctrinal fidelity.

Tomorrow I'll post some things about he handles criticism that I found intriguing...

Mark Driscoll on the Emerging Church, pt 1

It's been my habit when I have a chance to interact with somebody I think you'll find interesting to jot down a few blog notes. This past week I had a chance to spend several hours with the colorful and controversial Mark Driscoll (and Ed Stetzer, more on that later).

Over several meals with him, coffee, and a recorded interview I conducted for the seminary (available soon) I got to hear more about ministry than I have in a long, long time. I love that guy. It is like Mark says, pastors of large churches learn more from other pastors than they do from conferences. I found him to be warm, personable, and humble. He really commits himself to serving and mentoring younger pastors.

At SEBTS he discussed, in full detail, the emerging church movement. His perspective is unusual in that he addresses thing from the inside, having started out this process aligned with all the variant streams of the emerging church. He identifies 3 streams now (following Ed Stetzer):

• The "relevance" stream, which are basically guys who hold to the basics of evangelicalism and are just trying to bring it into touch with culture... guys, he said, like Donald Miller (Blue Like Jazz) and Erwin McManus. Driscoll says he has no problem with these guys.
• The second stream is the "new reformed" stream of the emerging church. Guys who are also speaking out against the status quo church, but they do so from the perspective of a deeply committed theology, particularly of the Reformed nature. This would include Driscoll, Sovereign Grace ministries, Matt Chandler, and etc. He says the "New Reformed" stream differs from the "Old Reformed" stream in that (a) they are nice; and (b) they look at lost people as people who need Christ and not just kindling; and (c) they are somewhat charismatic, raising their hands to worship in songs written after the 18th century.
• The third stream are those who have compromised some of the essential doctrines of the faith. Driscoll mentioned a number of guys--his friends--whom he said, sadly, now were in this stream. They included Brian McLaren, Rob Bell, Tony Jones, Doug Pagitt, and a few others. He cited numerous statements and excerpts from their works that demonstrated that the Gospel has been compromised in their ministries. It's worth at least hearing.

It was a great conference. It should be available soon here. Got more to say on this... and some digest of some of the things I learned... but that's all I got time for now.

The Pastor as Theologian: Al Mohler

OK, so if I had to list the top 5 "mostly-unknown" things to see before you die, Al Mohler's library would definitely be on that list. Just got back from Southern Seminary and got to spend a little time with President Mohler in the basement of his home where he has built his library--some 30,000 volumes he has amassed in his personal library. Are you kidding me? It is built like a labyrinth... some kind of "The Name of the Rose" deal... truly astounding.

It reminded me of the excellent biography I just read of Charles Spurgeon... a man who thought and preached deeply about the Gospel but was marvelously effective at reaching people. Spurgeon is often (wrongly) claimed by so-called preachers who love to preach heady doctrines that they are fascinated by, but are stunningly themselves stunningly ineffective at reaching common people.  Spurgeon was a  theologian and a fanatical evangelist. His deep theology was readily understood by "common" people. In fact, Spurgeon had the first megachurch of modern history--some 20,000 people in one service before there was amplification!

Where are the examples of preachers who can do both--reach people effectively and take people deep with Christ? Why aren't our deepest theologians setting the examples for how to reach people?

Al Mohler is a man dedicated to creating preachers of such sort, and Southern Seminary (surpassed only by its Southeastern counterpart) are great places to train.

Second Conversions: Bill Hybels

Got to meet and have breakfast with Bill Hybels yesterday. An incredible learning experience. Sure, there are things we do differently. But the man is a leader, and is leaving the world a legacy of doing whatever it takes to get the Gospel to people. I'll rise to applaud that any day.

He talked about second conversions...certain things that he has been "reborn" to in recent years of his ministry. Here is a handful of them (in my paraphrase):

• "A church is to be missional, not just attractional." Jesus did not die to attract a crowd on Sundays, but to train believers to work righteousness in the streets and bring the Kingdom of God to the world.
• "A church ought to be diverse IN EVERY WAY that its community is diverse if it is to properly be called an Acts 2 church." That means age diversity, ethnic diversity, socioeconomic diversity, and religious tradition diversity. Many of us have figured out we can grow a church more quickly by doing our music and programming to attract only one kind of person. But how does getting a group of people who all resemble each other and like to hang out with each other anyway demonstrate the awesome mystery of the body of Christ? Wouldn't a group of young people who got along with old people and black people with hispanic people and rich people with poor people be a mystery the world would have to notice?

I asked Pastor Hybels point-blank... "If programming for diversity meant that you could only grow half as large as a church, would you still do it?" Without batting an eye, he said "Absolutely... The larger witness of the church is more permanent than a temporary number surge. Plus, it's biblical. The Bible is the manual for the church and it tells us that in the same Christ-community ought to be people of all flavors. The church is to be a house of prayer for all nations. It angered Him when the Jews turned it into something different. I imagine it angers Him still today when we do it." (My paraphrase)

He continued, "The New Testament strategy for church growth is not to find a niche of people to reach, but to strive to make the footprint of your church resemble the footprint of your community."

• "Numerical growth is not the best, and certainly not the only, indicator of the health of the church." This has been a lesson that I will probably forever be relearning. We do care about numbers because we want to reach as many people as possible as fast as possible. But I have to remind myself that God evaluates disciples, not numbers. And I have to remind myself that I should never sacrifice what the Bible says a church should be for what works in bringing in a big crowd or lots of money (not that those two are always opposed). I have to remind myself that God's evaluation has much more to do with how faithful I am to Christ than how large my church is.
• "It is the church's responsibility to speak out against injustice and care for the poor in their community and around the world."
• "White churches are often oblivious to the racial dimensions of the society around them." For example, predominately white churches often don't see why they should acknowledge Martin Luther King, Jr. Day, since they don't acknowledge Lincoln or Washington Day either. But black Christians can't fathom why they don't, and feel it disrespectful and denigrating not to do so. White Christians think that because they have black friends they have fulfilled their role in racial reconciation. But the issue is more complex than that.

One other thing that stood out to me was his humility... It always amazes me how some great men and women never lose the learning edge. And not fake, smarmy humility either. Bill was honestly trying to learn something me (and the other pastors I was with), who collectively have not done 1/10 of what he has done.

OK, those were just a few teasers... it was awesome and inspiring. And please don't write me and tell me that you have concerns with Bill Hybels. That's not my point here. From the conversations I often have at pastor's conferences, you'd think that his middle name is "now, we don't really support everything he says." 

I do not deny do we need to be discerning, but I do maintain that we can always learn from spiritual giants.